Introduction

While doing research for the feature “Codex Mendoza and Mexican History,” I found an article that detailed the death rituals of the Nahuas. Those rituals are strongly related to the traditions of the Aztec culture and represent the living continuity of Aztec beliefs.

For example, in the Tzontikomostok grotto, located 500 meters underground on the outskirts of Tequila, Veracruz, the "Xochitlalli cult of mother earth" is celebrated annually, a rite of local native peoples in which, according to the Nahuatl traditions, a hole is dug into the earth and filled with all the fruits that the earth offers to humanity. During the ceremony, the deities of the earth are thanked and asked for a productive harvest.

Doctor María Teresa Rodríguez studies the social organization and ritual processes in different interethnic regions of Mexico, especially among the Nahuas of Veracruz. She has spent over twenty years working with this community. In this conversation, she shares her research and experiences.

Magali Delgado: First of all, thank you very much for agreeing to participate in this project. The questions that I am going to ask you are closely related to your article, "Rituals of Death and Kinship in the Nahua Tradition of the Sierra de Zongolica." To begin, can we consider the Nahua community of the Sierra Zongolica as descendants of the Aztecs from precolonial times? How would you describe that relationship?

Dr. María Teresa Rodríguez: No, their Aztec origin cannot be considered linear. The Aztecs are an ethnic group from Aztlán, hence their name, Azteca. They settled in Central Mexico where other ethnic groups were also living. The central component of these groups is a group known as the Mexica. The Nahuas of Zongolica have a cultural heritage that is pre-Hispanic, of course, and they became closely linked to the Mexica or Aztec history when the latter colonized other pre-Hispanic ethnic groups. The Nahuas of the Sierra de Zongolica come from Central Mexico, but not exactly from the Mexican capital—they come from Tula, a site that is located in what is now the State of Hidalgo, and are descended from an ethnic group called Nonoalca-Chichimeca. So, it is not a direct descent, but there is a very narrow cultural influence that has its origin in archaic migrations and conquests that gave rise to the Mexicas in Central Mexico.

Delgado: Based on your experience, how do the members of the Nahua community identify themselves? What is their national identity?

Rodríguez: They consider themselves Mexicans in two ways: On one hand, they know that they belong to the Mexican nation. On the other hand, they speak Náhualt but they call it Mexicano. They call themselves Mexicaneros, which means speakers of Mexicano. The Náhuatl is a category linked to the anthropological tradition and it is the ethnohistorical research that has categorized them as speakers of a Nahua language.

There is another self-denomination called Macehuales, which means something like “poor peasant.” The Macehuales are also the peasant people of the traditional Indigenous culture and are conceived as heirs of this Mexican tradition in the most original sense of the language. Macehual was a word used in pre-Hispanic Mexico to speak of the lowest category of social organization. The Macehuales were the poor peasants subordinated to compulsory labor by the higher classes. Today, the term still designates the lowest group of the socioeconomic hierarchy.

It is important to clarify that all this is a dynamic process. We cannot say that all the inhabitants of this Indigenous region have a unified conscious self-description, and a homogeneous knowledge about themselves and about their culture and their own history. There is a great social and cultural diversity, a heterogeneity in which young people, for example, have another type of awareness of themselves and of their place in the modern Mexican nation. Many young people are no longer fluent in the language, although their parents and grandparents are. There is also a displacement of certain cultural knowledge and practices. I do not want to give the impression that everything is static and homogeneous in these communities. The changes are derived from globalization, education, transnational migration, internal migration, and multiple other continuous processes.

Delgado: It is very important to highlight the dynamics and diversity of these groups. Do you think that the dissemination of the cultural richness of these groups through cultural institutions like museums and universities could bring some benefit to the lives of these communities? Could cultural institutions benefit from knowledge of these customs?

Rodríguez: Certainly. It is very important to know other ways of thinking and other ways of living in the world. This is what anthropology calls a worldview. There are visions of the cosmos that contribute a lot to our own lives as inhabitants of a multicultural society. For these traditions, I think it is super important to keep them, know them, value them, and claim them—because they are alive. As I said before, although there are processes of change and displacement of some practices, there is also persistence. There is an author named Alfredo López Austin who is very important in the knowledge of Mesoamerican ideology. He talks about the fact that there is a hard core of this pre-Hispanic Mesoamerican religious thought that remains, even if some elements are reworked, re-signified, and transformed. It is exciting and surprising that, after so many centuries, this core remains alive. Anthropologists have the task of understanding these permanencies, not only as static elements but also as incorporated into the dynamics of daily life.

In addition, as it appears in my article that you kindly cite, these pre-Hispanic rituals around death are closely linked with elements of the Catholic-Christian religion that these cultures have adapted and made permanent. These are syncretic processes that, in the end, make space for new forms. They are called "Mesoamerican religions," which means that they constitute their own belief system that is not fully accepted by the Catholic Church. It is vital to continue spreading the knowledge that the people, both those who are part of these peoples and the wider mestizo (part-Spanish descent) society, value a multicultural society.

Delgado: From the first days of this research, I have had in my mind that part of the audience will be those people who have Mexican origins but who are born outside of Mexico, who do not have a way to connect directly with their culture. In your opinion, what has been the fundamental reason that has allowed these traditions to survive since pre-Hispanic times?

Rodríguez: Well, there are several causes. In the case of the Sierra de Zongolica where I have worked and other indigenous regions of the country and the continent, it has a lot to do with geographic isolation. Imagine: since colonial times, this area was evangelized, but it is a mountainous area in which access was difficult. The names of the places (the toponyms) show an early colonization because they are preceded with the names of patron saints. For example, Teshuacan is called San Juan Teshuacan. The indigenous municipality of Tequila is called Real San Pedro Tequila. So, the Franciscans, who were the first to evangelize the area, respected part of the toponymy but imposed the name of an evidently Catholic patron saint. It was not an in-depth evangelization process. There was, perhaps, a parish priest who did not have the means to do deeper work. Even if he had done so, the people would have continued a process of symbolic re-elaboration of whatever Catholic elements the Spanish introduced.

There was also significant physical distance from the mestizo society. During the colonial period, republics of indigenous communities organized. The colonial institution allowed a continuity of cultural elements and social organization. It allowed the development of religious beliefs and practices, and of course Spanish symbolic, religious, social, and economic elements were imposed. But this did not prevent the existence of a much deeper cultural substrate that could continue to be reworked and adapted to changing conditions.

Another very important and closely related element is the maintenance of the language. As you know, language is a profound expression through which the basic notions of thought and culture are transmitted. By keeping the language alive, basic elements of Mesoamerican culture and religious thoughts are also maintained. Language is the vehicle through which we transmit concepts of the world that are, sometimes, untranslatable into a different language. If the language remains alive, the thought systems will also remain.

Delgado: The next question is more personal. Your work describes these traditions in detail. Other works contain more statistics and demographic questions, but do not offer details of the rituals as you do. What are the most significant experiences you had during living with these groups? What was it that most impressed you or moved you?

Rodríguez: That is a very good question. This has been the work of several years, and there have been very intense experiences, especially in the form of the knowledge of people with another way of thinking and being in the world. I made very good friends. I even became a comadre (godmother) and participated at the baptism of two children from the mountains. Anthropology offers us the possibility of getting closer to those deemed "the other" and of detaching ourselves from our unquestioned assumptions about ourselves, the meaning of life and death, or what human relationships are. Well, now that you ask me, the most beautiful thing is walking through the mountains with people, with great security and tranquility. I never felt any danger. Today things have changed. As you know, here in Mexico it is already more difficult to do that type of work, especially for women.

Delgado: How long did your research take?

Rodríguez: I did three degrees there: bachelor's, master’s, and doctorate. I did field work in the mountains. It was not a continuous period but several periods over about twenty years. That allowed me to work in different municipalities rather than a single locality, and allowed me to have a more general vision. This also allowed me to research different aspects of the culture. I specialized more in ritual practices but migration and domestic organization also interested me a lot.

Delgado: Is there any learning from your life in the mountains that is still part of your personal life? Any tradition or idea that has marked your life or that you have adopted for your own life?

Rodríguez: Well, I believe in respect for the other, respect for nature, and acceptance of the other. The people of the mountains have a very respectful way of being. It is a very ritualized type of behavior, very parsimonious and with a very particular modulation. People are discreet, they are reserved, and that notion of respect is rooted in their culture. You must ask permission from the natural elements before picking a flower or collecting firewood. You must also ask for permission to enter a house and to speak.

Delgado: Could we say that this notion of respect comes from pre-Hispanic antecedents?

Rodríguez: You make me think about it right now. Yes, the pre-Hispanic religion was extremely demanding, with a lot of sacrifice to nature and deities. For these people, natural elements like earth and water have life, they have owners. So, it seems that these notions come from before. For the Mexica of pre-Hispanic times, the Tlalocan was an underground space where animal and plant species lived. There were water deposits that supported life. For the Nahuas, the Tlalocan has the same meaning. You must be respectful of those conduits that are below the earth because they have supernatural owners. That is a pre-Hispanic notion that today is very much alive, not only among the Nahuas of the Sierra de Zongolica but across almost all of Mesoamerica.